Sinatra_Z - An Answer

Art Harun wrote this in TMI
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/opinion/art-harun/43907-enemies-of-the-state


And I answered -

I'm pretty sure,
those starving hard working farmers in India who has to fight drought and fertilizer prices don't give a damn about freedom of speech or expression. It is those comfortably well paid lawyers with some extra time on their hands who are more concerned about these things and write about it.

Meaning,
Before you talk about democracy perhaps it is wise to first elevate the people's (rakyat) quality of living, because like the maslow's hierarchy of needs there are more important things to fulfill before they get to the self actualization level.

India has one of the most open democracy in the world yet the people are still racists. Now what does that tell you, democracy does not make you less racist, education is. In fact during the times of Soviet Union Russians aren't racists at all because communism knows no colour, yet now in a democracy they have the biggest population of skinheads and nazi groups because of economic factor.

If given the chance to an Indian labourer on whether he would prefer to go to Shanghai and lose his democratic rights yet get a good job and stay in Bangalore and be paid peanuts yet he can vote, I think we can pretty much guess the outcome.

And yes Dr M says China, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan will lead the charge.
Japan has been ruled by the same party for over 50 years before, South Korea and Taiwan was once ruled by dictators who are horrible in human rights but spur fast economic growth and efficiency during their time.

There is such a thing as too much democracy, look at Pakistan, apart from cricket the national's favourite past time is politics and it is dominated by lawyers, look how screwed up it gets.

On the other hand, China is being ruled by a group of Engineers and they are flying high.

Dr M is a lousy philosopher yes I agree, and that's why people like him because Philosophers will only talk and do very little while technocrats (like Doctors) do more and talk less. Philosopher ini macam Anwar Ibrahim.

15 comments:

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Dear Sinatra Z,
I had to reword my initial comment. (Hindsight is 2020)
I think it would unfair to the Indian citizens for us to sit here and pass judgement. During the periods of 1981-2003, India's GDP grew at an average of 5%, so perhaps that is why Tun Dr Mahathir was making his statement, based on outdated data. Between 2003 to 2008, India's GDP doubled from $600 b to $1,200 billion, or an average growth of 15%. Furthermore, the growth does not seem to be levelling off anytime soon, for this year, growth is estimated at 6-7%, whilst we will get a -3% growth. From 2000-2009, the cummalative FDI inflow to India was over $100 billion

Perhaps you can educate Rocky Bru to on this matter of growth here.

So to paint India, which together with Brazil, Russia and China, form the BRIC cartel, as a country with dominated by poor farmers once again belies the total lack of knowledge that characterizes the supporters of Tun Dr Mahathir.

So for Tun Dr Mahathir to criticize India shows he really is completely out of touch with the reality of the worlds economy. To be honest, the Indian Prime Minister reading Tun Dr Mahathir's nuggets of wisdom could perhaps afford a chuckle or two.

 

donno why la

each time after mahathir and his fans say /wrote an article to kutuk anwar, god willing, somebody else will kutuk mahathir 10 times more......anwar didnt say anything at all to mahathir except for "this old man really nyanyuk/mudah lupa, kutuk perbuatan yang diri sendiri pernah lakukan"

kesian che det asyik terkena hukum karma....tuhan maha adil, setiap perbuatan buruk akan dibalas juga....kita nantikan episod seterusnya......

jibam

 

Very nice catatan, lipas.

Sadly, our country is also screwed up becos, one due to too many politcians are lawyers and two, too many corporate leaders are accountant.

These 2 groups of people are the worst kind becos they dont know how to create value but very good at manipulating laws and accounts!!

The ENGINEER.

 

Anon above, accountant is better than laywer lah... at least we don't double speak like lawyer... he he he :)

-Accountant

 

>>.India has one of the most open democracy in the world yet the people are still racists.

Dude, what are u smoking. What a dumb-ass comment.Argue on some merits.

Racism exists in all types of governance systems.

China is not ruled by engineers...wtf...go read a book or 2.

 

In replying to Loken (whatever)

On China -
Hu Jintao has a degree on Hydraulic engineering and From 1969 to 1974, Hu worked for Sinohydro Engineering Bureau, as an engineer.

Wen Jiabao -
Wen is a geologist and engineer by profession and holds a postgraduate degree from the Beijing Institute of Geology.

Jiang Zemin -
Graduated from Shanghai Jiao Tong University n 1947 with a Bachelor's degree in electrical engineering. worked for Changchun's First Automobile Works and was once a Minister of Electronic Industries in 1983.

Wu Yi -
Graduated from the Petroleum Refinery department at the Beijing Petroleum Institute, with a degree in petroleum engineering.

in case you are wondering (if you're not reading much)

Hu Jintao - President of PRC

Wen Jiabao - Premier of PRC

Jiang Zemin - Former President of PRC before Hu Jintao

Wu Yi - Vice Premier.

And there are many more Engineers in the politburo.

To answer you on India

By racism in India I mean the Caste system and several racial riots in several troubled regions.

Because in Art's article he pointed out that although Malaysia is modernised by a "dictator" (his defenition) the price we pay is now we are more racists. So I pointed out that India, democratic as hell without a dictator, Indians are still racists and by that they hate darker Indians.

I don't smoke anything and I check my facts before I write.

 

To Sinatra..what the frank..

Given that u read about commies a lot....they are flying high not because they are ruled by engineers, but because its a command and control economy...

u are still completely wrong in equating racism and democracy. I do not think we are more racist then anyone else; but I believe, as humans we are all racist. Just need to learn...

btw, Despite India having too much democracy as Dr M claimed, its growth rate is far superior then most undemocratic countries except China.

There is a great danger that once people have the economic means there would demand rights to speak freely. This is fundamental human behavior.

Democracy and freedom is the cornerstone of long term economic and social progress.

You can check u facts all u want; but connecting facts to rational issues and concerns should be reasonable, scientifically.

 

The engineer remark is a satire, when compare to lawyers because art is a lawyer and by referring to the first paragraph hence one do not take that statement literally aihhhh....

It is true that sarcasm is often wasted on the... ah never mind.

It's not me who equate democracy with racism it's in the original article at points out the link. If you read my answer I say that Democracy dosen't make us less racist, education is hence please by all means READ!!!! Before commenting.

And like mentioned in the answer of Maslow's hierachy of needs, I said that people need to fulfill their basic needs before entering the self actualization phase hence it is wise to cut down on the politicking and elevate people's quality of living first.

and NO, PLEASE check your FACTS

China is not Command and Control economy, Chinese government is communism but their economy is Capitalism ever since Deng Xiaoping.

India's growth is NOT far Superior or even NEAR CHINA's growth at ALL.

Perhaps before you start telling other people to read and get their facts right it is wise if YOU would get your facts right before you spew out simple conclusions based on YOUR ASSUMPTIONS.

 
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I should really proof read before I post. Here's the edited version of my previous post, appreciate if you can delete it Sinatra :P.

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You see Wenger, Mahathir checks his facts and uses UP TO DATE data - which shows India growing at an average 7-8% in 2003-08.
http://www.indexmundi.com/india/gdp_real_growth_rate.html


Tun is not the only one who checks his facts. Sinatra, the blog author, also does it. For India IS "dominated by poor farmers" - the agriculture sector employs 60% of the citizens of India.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/in.html#Econ

//Popcorn, showing Wenger the basics of how to use Google and proof reading

 

Moron,
Do you know whats the difference between nominal and real gdp growth.
Whats is the real gdp growth here?
What is the real gdp growth over there?
those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
just keep eatin that popcon

 

If tun is so smart which he is not, then why not he tell us how to have a $1 trillion Us dollar economy and grow real gdp at 7%.

 

According to this
http://www.indexmundi.com/malaysia/gdp_real_growth_rate.html

Malaysia is going to grow by 4% in 2009. Pls check your sources before you dare challenge me.