Sinatra_Z - God in English is OK! But Tuhan in Malay cannot

JAN 7 — Pada hari terakhir tahun 2009 mahkamah tinggi memutuskan bahawa akhbar mingguan gereja Katolik Malaysia iaitu Herald boleh menggunakan perkataan Allah untuk penulisan bahagian Bahasa Melayu. Ini telah menimbulkan banyak ketidak puashatian di kalangan Umat Islam di negara ini termasuk diri saya sendiri. Saya rasa perlu untuk saya menerangkan mengapa saya menanggap keputusan Mahkamah berkenaan dan juga permintaan Herald untuk menggunakan nama Allah sebagai satu isu yang penting. Ianya secara langsung melibatkan nama Tuhan yang saya dan umat Islam di negara ini gunakan sekurang-kurangnya 5 kali sehari.

Walaupun agak terkilan dan terkejut dengan keputusan Mahkamah berkenaan, apatah lagi apabila Islam dianggap sebagai agama rasmi di negara ini adalah lebih mengecewakan bagi saya apabila memikirkan kenapa Herald, akhbar rasmi Gereja Katolik berkeras dan bermatian hendak menggunakan nama Allah dalam menerangkan isu-isu berkenaan agama Kristian dalam penulisan mereka. Apakah dengan menggunakan perkataan Allah dalam penulisan Bahasa Melayu maka terjemahan akan menjadi lebih baik? Adakah kini pemahaman terhadap ajaran dalam Injil adalah lebih mantap di kalangan Umat Kristian Katolik di Malaysia ini kerana sekarang mereka nampak dengan jelas kerana penggunaan perkataan Allah yang menggantikan perkataan Tuhan?



http://themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/opinion/zaidel-baharudin/48759-god-in-english-is-ok-but-tuhan-in-malay-cannot

22 comments:

Saya pelik dengan pihak Herald ni. Tak pernah kah mereka terfikir. Allah adalah SATU, tidak beranak dan di peranakkan. Macam mana mereka boleh menggunakan nama ALLAH dalam kitab mereka sedangkan ALLAH tidak mempunyai anak

 

Allah bermaksud Tuhan dalam Arab, jadi sebab tu dalam kitab injil terjemahan arab Tuhan itu digantikan dengan Allah.

Jadi tak jadi isu bagi mereka kalau Allah dalam injil tu satu ke, tiga ke, bapa atau roh kudus kerana Allah itu Tuhan.

Akan tetapi dalam bahasa Melayu lain pula ceritanya seperti yang telah ditulis.

 

Dalam pengetahuan saya, perkataan Allah ini bukan isu sebelum 2007 apabila Syed Albar melarangkan Herald menggunakan nya.

Sekarang, it telah dijadikan isu politik oleh UMNO dan ramai orang melayu tertipu dan di perdayakan oleh UMNO untuk tujuan politik nya.

bacalah ini dan faham kenapa perkataan Tuhan sahaja tidak cukup.

Saudara Zaidel,

Interesting article, but I believe you have missed the point.

1. In the Bible, there are often references to "Lord GOD". The problem is because Lord in Bahasa Melayu is translated to "Tuhan", and therefore another word is needed for God. The translators chose the word "Allah", causing this big mess. Perhaps another word can be used for Lord, but I'm not sure. Anyone have any ideas? I don't have my DBP kamus with me right now.

2. I believe publishing of the Bahasa Melayu Bible is banned in Malaysia; so even if we can find another name for "Lord GOD", reprinting all the Bibles is a formidable feat; as there are no publishers in Malaysia. And it will be very difficult to persuade publishers in Indonesia to make this change just for us.

Wouldn't it be great if the Muslim community in Malaysia came together with the Catholic community to solve these 2 problems? I believe the Home Ministry will be more receptive if Muslims themselves asked for the ban to be lifted. And since most Muslims are Malays, I think that we can come up with a better translation than the current that works for everybody.


Saya harap kaum melayu yang cukup pengetahuan akan faham bahawa isu ini adalah perbuatan UMNO.

 

Looks like you caught the paranoia too.

 

nasib kebanyakan Melayu di sarawak tidak berpendirian seperti kamu ni. bayangkan jika Bumiputera kristian yg majoritinya di Sarawak berpendapat seperti kamu tentang hukum majoriti...boleh hilang kepala.

 

Why can't we channel our focus and energy on something fruitful rather than something where there is no right or wrong answer. Its better if we debate about other issues like the education and economy.

All of us have the right to utilise and import any words. It is just a matter of INTERPRETATION. One can say "Tuhan" is used as a GENERAL word describing Tuhan Allah, Tuhan Buddha etc. One can interpret "Allah" as "God". You said why can't Allah be subsituted as God in the bible. The reason is because there is another word for it which has the same meaning. Wouldn't it be unfair that some of the malay words are imported from other language?

If one wants to take pride of a word, the suggestion is trademark, patent and copyright that particular word. If one can say that this word belongs to that, the bahasa malaysia is way behind compared to other language.

Channel our energy on other issue. Not this. We are too induldge in this issue to the point where we are fighting to be "right." This is the cause of war: Ego.

The Voice Young Generation

 

Hi,

I am a Muslim from middle-east and I do understand Bahasa Indonesia because of the years of learning the language to interact with Indonesians.

I am so sorry Pak Zaidel, I have only one word for you: Shallow-minded

While I respect Malaysia as a Muslim country for its visionary leaders, technological advancements and multi-racial tolerance, what I just read from the news and from Pak Zaidel, really puts all this respect into shame.

Shame on you, Pak Zaidel.

Oh, besides, Pak Zaidel, you claim yourselves to be avid Muslim but why such "vulgarities" in your blogspot?

I wish Muslims would not stray away like you have.

 

l read somewhere in Malaysian Insider, also this guys article, it says Malaysian government gave "Public holiday for Christmas although Christians are minority.This is give and take"

He also mentioned "we(Muslims) are not stopping u from ringing church bells or anything....., we only want you not to use our word:Allah....this is also give and take "

FOR YOUR INFORMATION:
- Churches in Malaysia have been stopped from ringging the bells loooong ago!!
- Churches are not allowed to do palm sunday parade
-it is soooo difficult to get approval to build a church and we have to sit in shoplots!

: so didn't Christians give and take???

 

No Paranoia though,
just a point of view. In fact the title itself is Ironic enough

As expected I haven't still see a reason.

 

I don't think bells are banned, because if Hindu temples are allowed to have em.

Nobody does a parade these days.

And there are plenty of churches just around KL alone, I think that approval is easy and the reason why churches are on shoplots (which also needs approval) is because it's cheaper to do so rather than buy a plot of land a build a new building.

 

jangan debate gi..
Tak kisah apa tuhan, asalkan moral seseorang individu baik, tu sudah memandai.
kita insan sepatutnya tolong-menolong sayang menyayangi..
jangan kata u Tuhan tu, I Tuhan ni, jadi kita tak sayang..
Perbuatan jahat (seperti membakar churches) tidak menjadikan you ISLAM pun!!

 

Bukan saya yang bakar church tu

 

Minta maaf kalau ada mana-mana pihak tersinggung dengan penggunaan bahasa Malaysia saya. Maklumlah, orang Sabah, Bahasa Malaysia/Melayu itu bukan bahasa pertama.

Bahasa itu adalah subjektif walaupun kolektif, dan harus dilihat dalam konteks masyarakat pengguna.

**BAHAGIAN SETERUSNYA MENGGUNAKAN PERKATAAN YANG MUNGKIN DIANGGAP KASAR OLEH ORANG-ORANG TERTENTU**

Kita gunakan saja perkataan "pantat" sebagai contoh. Minta maaf sekiranya saudara-saudari merasakan perkataan in amat kasar, tapi ianya merupakan contoh terbaik bagi menunjukkan konteks bahasa.

Di semenanjung Malaysia, "pantat" bermaksud bahagian sulit wanita. Namun, di Sabah pula, ianya bermaksud punggung. Hal ini menjadi sumber kekeliruan ramai warga Semenanjung yang datang ke Sabah.

Tapi ini amat semulajadi, di mana bahasa itu mampu berubah mengikut konteks tempatan.

**TAMAT HURAIAN**

Maka, oleh sebab perubahan bahasa semulajadi dan perbezaan konteks, adalah kurang tepat untuk menggunakan tafsiran bahasa Melayu berdasarkan konteks Saudara Zaidel sendiri sahaja dan tidak mempedulikan konteks penganut Kristian di Malaysia.

Dalam konteks orang Muslim Malaysia, memang nampak macam terjemahan ini tidak masuk akal. Tapi dari psudut pandangan Kristian, ianya amat semulajadi.

Terutamanya bagi orang Bumiputera Sabah dan Sarawak yang asalnya tidak menganggap bahasa Melayu sebagai bahasa asli mereka. Di mana orang Malaysia Timur (tidak termasuk golongan yang bertutur dalam suatu bentuk bahasa Melayu seperti bahasa Brunei sebagai bahasa ibunda) bertembung dengan bahasa Melayu, konsep tuhan itu seringkali dipanggil "Allah", kerana kebanyakan pengguna bahasa Melayu juga orang Islam.

Maka tidak hairanlah sekiranya di kalangan masyarakat Malaysia Timur, perkataan Allah itu disamakan dengan tuhan.

Oleh itu, walaupun pengunaan ini tidak logik mengiukut tafsiran bahasa Melayu bagi saudara, bagi kami, ianya adalah penggunaan bahasa Melayu yang amat logik dan semulajadi. Saudara hanya perlu melihat kepada kepelbagaian bahasa Creole di kawasan Carribean yang menggunakan bahasa Inggeris dengan adaptasi mereka sendiri.

Put yourself in our shoes for a minute and stop imposing your subjective interpretations of linguistics on us. Things might become clearer and our intentions will seem less hostile.

There is no problem with Christians using Tuhan. I don't think we'll mind.

The problem is the method used to compel us (harsh words, ignorance of our cultural contexts, ignorance of the word's history, ignorance of the context of Malay usage amongst Christians who may not have used Malay as much but have adapted it as their own language as in Sabah).

Let's see this in another light: the anti-Communist fervour of governments past.

Look at how much of the anti-Communist vitriol has been aimed at past atrocities committed by the Commies, and never its actual ideological content.

Why?

Because let's face it, the Alliance and consequently BN government has practiced a lot of Socialism and borrowed state-centred policies beloved by Communist states.

The heart of the matter remains: BN and UMNO in particular are just pissed off with the methods used by the Commies, and not their policies.

The same is true here. Christians may not mind stopping the use of Allah, but having it bashed into us by vile words and misconceptions (the worst transgressor being the our apparent evil and hidden intentions to 'confuse' Muslims with a word) makes us want to stand fast, for fear that concessions on such a remeh-temeh matter will erode any pretense of us having the ability to check any encroachment on our rights.

Your discourse has certainly not helped one bit. Remember that this banning will clamp down on a right that has been practiced for many many years.

Your first commenter 's inability to understand that subjective interpretations of language in other communities can exist is akin to people who just can't understand why some people prefer different music.

 

For the record, I don't mind if Muslims use the spelling Jesus. It's just a spelling, and it's your own context.

 

Menjawab kepada Me

Quote
There is no problem with Christians using Tuhan. I don't think we'll mind.


Sinatra_Z

Good lets keep it that way

Quote

"Maklumlah, orang Sabah, Bahasa Malaysia/Melayu itu bukan bahasa pertama."

Maksudnya, terjemahan Tuhan kepada Allah itu tidaklah membantu dari segi pemahaman orang Iban mahupun Kadazan. Kerana seperti disebut anda Bahasa Malaysia bukanlah bahasa pertama dan dalam bahasa Iban memang tidak dapat perkataan Allah.

Jadi ianya adalah lebih baik sekiranya perkataan Tuhan atau Singalang (perkataan Iban) digunakan.

Rujukan
http://gnmawar.wordpress.com/adat-iban/origin-of-adat-iban-part-6/

Jadi berbalik kepada persoalan asal,

Untuk apakah dan tujuan apakah Herald merasakan perlu untuk mereka menggunakan Allah dan bukan Tuhan?


Quote 3

Because let's face it, the Alliance and consequently BN government has practiced a lot of Socialism and borrowed state-centred policies beloved by Communist states.

The heart of the matter remains: BN and UMNO in particular are just pissed off with the methods used by the Commies, and not their policies.


What has politics got to do with this issue. Zulkifli Noordin of PKR is against this, Nik Aziz of PAS is against this, Haron Din of PAS is against this and so are other UMNO politicians.

Not everything needs to be politicised here.


Quote
The same is true here. Christians may not mind stopping the use of Allah, but having it bashed into us by vile words and misconceptions (the worst transgressor being the our apparent evil and hidden intentions to 'confuse' Muslims with a word)

Have you read the comments on TMI on the article that I wrote? Hmm... trust me it ain't pretty. Just because I disagree suddenly I'm an extremist, narrow minded and god knows what else.

But doesn't mean that because some people react badly to a certain thing, you can make a wrong thing right.

 

To reply (again apologies for not using Malay, I would rather have my points conveyed clearly than botch it with potent misunderstandings. And your English is impeccable),

Quote Sinatra_Z,

"Maksudnya, terjemahan Tuhan kepada Allah itu tidaklah membantu dari segi pemahaman orang Iban mahupun Kadazan. Kerana seperti disebut anda Bahasa Malaysia bukanlah bahasa pertama dan dalam bahasa Iban memang tidak dapat perkataan Allah."


You misunderstand. The translation from English to Malay was not done based on Iban words, but based on the perception of Malay words. If I am a native Iban speaker for example, when attempting to translate from English to Malay, I would look at the word meanings in the context of English and Malay, not Iban. And as said, in early Malay discourse, Allah basically meant god, due to the predominance of Islam amongst Malays.

Quote Sinatra_Z,

"Jadi ianya adalah lebih baik sekiranya perkataan Tuhan atau Singalang (perkataan Iban) digunakan. "


Kalau gitu, baik guna saja semua perkataan Iban dan bukan perkataan Melayu.

Tapi matlamat di sini ialah terjemahan kepada Melayu, dan bukan kepada Iban. Maka perkataan dan istilah Melayu yang digunakan.

Dan seperti yang dikatakan di atas, kerana bahasa Melayu itu digunakan orang Melayu yang majoritinya Islam, maka dalam penggunaan perkataan Allah boleh disamakan sekaligus dengan tuhan.

Dari sudut pandangan orang Iban, Allah itu juga membawa maksud tuhan. Ini sama saja dengan konteks orang Kristian Arab.

Your argument is based on the assumption that an Iban translator would see Allah and think, "this is the Muslim god, I should therefore substitute it with another word".

But this assumption is wrong, simply because in the Malay used during the period, Allah is completely conflated with the concept of god, owing to the predominance of Islam amongst its speakers. Therefore there wouldn't even be a thought back then that Allah denoted specifically the Muslim god, and no need for anyone to think of an alternative word.

Furthermore, in translating from any language to Malay, what is perceived as the Malay term will be used. What's the point of using an Iban word, when the goal is a translation to Malay?

Understand the the rendering of word meanings is very much based on the observer, and not some objective standard.

The simplest example is the term "American", which objectively, in a modern sense, means someone from the American continent, just as god, in modern Malay, should translate as "tuhan". But due to the usage in English to denote US citizens as Americans, non-native speakers have adopted the same convention.

And as said, in olden days, Allah basically meant god, as there was no need for a widely used generic word for god, as most Malay-speakers were Muslim.

Quote Sinatra_Z

"Jadi berbalik kepada persoalan asal,

Untuk apakah dan tujuan apakah Herald merasakan perlu untuk mereka menggunakan Allah dan bukan Tuhan? "


Historical reasons. It had always been translated as such for many years. No reason to change it, by law of inertia.

Again, I don't mind seeing it changed, but certainly not by compulsion.

 


Quote Sinatra_Z

What has politics got to do with this issue. Zulkifli Noordin of PKR is against this, Nik Aziz of PAS is against this, Haron Din of PAS is against this and so are other UMNO politicians.

Not everything needs to be politicised here.


What?! Read that passage within the context of what I'm trying to say.

It's an analogy, not meant to politicise.

I'm saying that BN's anger against the Communists is based on objections to their methods, not the content.

Analogously, many Christians' objections are against the brute force method used to ban the entire usage of a word, not the fact that the word tuhan can also be used instead.

It's the messenger that causes ire in both cases, not the message itself.

Context, my friend.

Quote Sinatra_Z

"Have you read the comments on TMI on the article that I wrote? Hmm... trust me it ain't pretty. Just because I disagree suddenly I'm an extremist, narrow minded and god knows what else.

But doesn't mean that because some people react badly to a certain thing, you can make a wrong thing right."


I do not deign to call you an extremist. I'm just explaining how this issues transcends mere issues of translation, but is a natural reaction to against conservative forces who ignore all historical context (buta sejarah, as some would like to say) and try to pound the ban by brute force without consultation.

I'm saying regardless of debates on linguistics, this is primarily an issue of religious rights, and the ability for any religion to go about their business freely.

 

You know it is rather confusing...As a Muslim I find it silly saying that Allah is in reference to the Muslim God.
I mean Ive been raised with the belief that there is only ONE God..so how can there be a MUSLIM GOD? And then what? There's another KIND as well?

Utter bullshit.

Allah IS GOD. And Allah is not the MALAY word for God. It is the ARABIC word for God. Malays did not use Allah to refer to God till Islam came along. This was in sejarah tingkatan 4 if im not mistaken. and perhaps even in tingkatan 3.

This fight? it's ridiculous. Why now? East Malaysian Christians have been using Allah to refer to God since way back.

Do you remember what we've been taught as children? The religion that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is to spread is meant for EVERYONE. You cannot hope to gain any understanding if you do not choose to understand first.

I've always liked your writings Zaidel. this however I cannot agree. We arent living in unity till we learn to ACCEPT, not live in denial or mere tolerance.

Im starting to wonder if those who fight for the ban truly understand what they're fighting for...

 

shahadah Islam :

"Tiada TUHAN yang ku sembah melainkan ALLAH"...

Allah is God's name...

 

If they want to use the word ALLAH to translate God (tuhan) ...then the shahadah Islam will be translated as ...

"there is no ALLAH (god) that i pray to accept ALLAH" ?????

 

No it will not be translated as such.
It is still true to say "there is no God that i pray to except Allah".
you have proven yourself unable to understand the nature of translation. No good form of translation works literally the way you have suggested.

The recitation is to proclaim the "oneness" of Allah. therefore it is correct to say that "there is no God that i pray to except Allah" and grammatically wrong to say "there is no Allah that i pray to except Allah".
Not to mention totally not creative.
Im surprised anyone would think to argue that....